Microsoft exchange server mail vs pop from Sonic

[Bob Alman]

I have received a proposal to move our company
mail from being popped from Sonic, to a Microsoft
Server-based Exchange system. There are many good
reasons for people wanting this capability, but
being the Microsoftophobe that I am, I get a
sickening feeling in my gut, because of the
exchange system, and having to use Outlook.

I'm looking for any feedback, both positive and
negative about this proposed change, so I can
decide if I want to accept it, or fight it.

Thanks in advance.

[Peter Hessler]

I use Exchange at work, and I hates it. Mail mysteriously returns from
where you moved it, many features are unavaliable if you aren't using
Outlook (so it screws over your Unix/Linux/OS X/other users), spam
fighting is poor, security is past poor, filters are poor, etc.

On the bright side, you can blame MS for all of the problems you have
with it.



On 12 Oct 2006 01:35:50 GMT
Bob Alman <***@sonic.net> wrote:

: I have received a proposal to move our company
: mail from being popped from Sonic, to a Microsoft
: Server-based Exchange system. There are many good
: reasons for people wanting this capability, but
: being the Microsoftophobe that I am, I get a
: sickening feeling in my gut, because of the
: exchange system, and having to use Outlook.
:
: I'm looking for any feedback, both positive and
: negative about this proposed change, so I can
: decide if I want to accept it, or fight it.
:
: Thanks in advance.
:
: --
: Bob Alman

[Richard 'toast' Russo]

I don't use the sonic mail servers, but judging by MOTDs, Sonic mail
servers don't go down very frequently, and if they do they tend not to be
down for very long. Based on my experience with exchange (corporate and
school), the servers (even if clustered) seem to have some downtime
(scheduled or not) at least once a month, and major unscheduled downtime
tends to happen maybe once or twice a year, where some or all users will
not have access to their mail for 24 hours or more. From memory, many of
these unscheduled downtimes are due to the disk(s) filling up... it would
be great if exchange didn't corrupt its database when it runs out of
space, or IT people would monitor disk space use. ;)

Hope this helps,

Post by Bob Alman
I have received a proposal to move our company
mail from being popped from Sonic, to a Microsoft
Server-based Exchange system. There are many good
reasons for people wanting this capability, but
being the Microsoftophobe that I am, I get a
sickening feeling in my gut, because of the
exchange system, and having to use Outlook.
I'm looking for any feedback, both positive and
negative about this proposed change, so I can
decide if I want to accept it, or fight it.
Thanks in advance.

[Tyler Kelly]

My law firm uses Exchange servers. An Exchange server is basically an IMAP
sort of system, which people like because you can keep all your messages
online, rather than downloading as with POP. There are a lot of other
features, of course -- if you use Outlook as your mail client.

I'm not in IT, but my impression is that Exchange is kind of high
maintenance, and you need an IT guy to take care of it -- as others have
commented, it doesn't always work right. And, it's expensive -- I think the
licensing is not unlimited, i.e., the cost of your license depends on how
many users you have and how much storage capacity you want on the Exchange
server. If your users exceed the licensed storage capacity, you either have
to pay for a bigger license, or get them to delete their old emails. It can
be a nightmare.

Post by Richard 'toast' Russo
I don't use the sonic mail servers, but judging by MOTDs, Sonic mail
servers don't go down very frequently, and if they do they tend not to be
down for very long. Based on my experience with exchange (corporate and
school), the servers (even if clustered) seem to have some downtime
(scheduled or not) at least once a month, and major unscheduled downtime
tends to happen maybe once or twice a year, where some or all users will
not have access to their mail for 24 hours or more. From memory, many of
these unscheduled downtimes are due to the disk(s) filling up... it would
be great if exchange didn't corrupt its database when it runs out of
space, or IT people would monitor disk space use. ;)
Hope this helps,

Post by Bob Alman
I have received a proposal to move our company
mail from being popped from Sonic, to a Microsoft
Server-based Exchange system. There are many good
reasons for people wanting this capability, but
being the Microsoftophobe that I am, I get a
sickening feeling in my gut, because of the
exchange system, and having to use Outlook.
I'm looking for any feedback, both positive and
negative about this proposed change, so I can
decide if I want to accept it, or fight it.
Thanks in advance.

[drcean at sonic]

Post by Tyler Kelly
My law firm uses Exchange servers. An Exchange server is basically an IMAP
sort of system, which people like because you can keep all your messages
online, rather than downloading as with POP. There are a lot of other
features, of course -- if you use Outlook as your mail client.

Actually MAPI, a proprietary protocol. There is an IMAP interface which
I've used fairly successfully. The biggest problem is others putting
backgrounds and other spurious graphics in their e-mails. Appointment
invitations don't work. (I just reply and type "accepted", but that
won't add it to the calendar.)

That said, supposedly there is an open source tool which works with
MAPI. Can't remember the name off hand, but I think it came from Novell.

Personally, I like IMAP much better than POP. I can never keep my POP
clients in sync with each other.

--
Daniel

Post by Tyler Kelly
I'm not in IT, but my impression is that Exchange is kind of high
maintenance, and you need an IT guy to take care of it -- as others have
commented, it doesn't always work right. And, it's expensive -- I think the
licensing is not unlimited, i.e., the cost of your license depends on how
many users you have and how much storage capacity you want on the Exchange
server. If your users exceed the licensed storage capacity, you either have
to pay for a bigger license, or get them to delete their old emails. It can
be a nightmare.

Post by Richard 'toast' Russo
I don't use the sonic mail servers, but judging by MOTDs, Sonic mail
servers don't go down very frequently, and if they do they tend not to be
down for very long. Based on my experience with exchange (corporate and
school), the servers (even if clustered) seem to have some downtime
(scheduled or not) at least once a month, and major unscheduled downtime
tends to happen maybe once or twice a year, where some or all users will
not have access to their mail for 24 hours or more. From memory, many of
these unscheduled downtimes are due to the disk(s) filling up... it would
be great if exchange didn't corrupt its database when it runs out of
space, or IT people would monitor disk space use. ;)
Hope this helps,

Post by Bob Alman
I have received a proposal to move our company
mail from being popped from Sonic, to a Microsoft
Server-based Exchange system. There are many good
reasons for people wanting this capability, but
being the Microsoftophobe that I am, I get a
sickening feeling in my gut, because of the
exchange system, and having to use Outlook.
I'm looking for any feedback, both positive and
negative about this proposed change, so I can
decide if I want to accept it, or fight it.
Thanks in advance.

[Don Freeman]

Post by drcean at sonic
Personally, I like IMAP much better than POP. I can never keep my POP
clients in sync with each other.

Hmm, this brings up an interesting question. How is this done? For my
clients on the same network I have one mailbox on the "Master PC" and point
all the other clients to that mailbox. But this only works on PCs connected
to my home network. I simulate syncing by setting up all the remote PCs to
NOT delete messages from the server and the home (Master) PC to do so. That
way I know I get all my mail on the home PC, but any I get at home first are
not accessible by the remote PC's. So it's only a one-way syncing.

[drcean at sonic]

Post by Don Freeman

Post by drcean at sonic
Personally, I like IMAP much better than POP. I can never keep my POP
clients in sync with each other.

Hmm, this brings up an interesting question. How is this done? For my
clients on the same network I have one mailbox on the "Master PC" and point
all the other clients to that mailbox. But this only works on PCs connected
to my home network. I simulate syncing by setting up all the remote PCs to
NOT delete messages from the server and the home (Master) PC to do so. That
way I know I get all my mail on the home PC, but any I get at home first are
not accessible by the remote PC's. So it's only a one-way syncing.

For me, it's done manually by date/time. I just have to remember what
time I pulled the mail from the last computer I logged in from. I also
keep messages on the server until specifically deleted. It's a pain.

--
Daniel

[Don Freeman]

Post by Don Freeman

Post by drcean at sonic
Personally, I like IMAP much better than POP. I can never keep my POP
clients in sync with each other.

Hmm, this brings up an interesting question. How is this done? For my
clients on the same network I have one mailbox on the "Master PC" and
point all the other clients to that mailbox. But this only works on PCs
connected to my home network. I simulate syncing by setting up all the
remote PCs to NOT delete messages from the server and the home (Master)
PC to do so. That way I know I get all my mail on the home PC, but any I
get at home first are not accessible by the remote PC's. So it's only a
one-way syncing.

For me, it's done manually by date/time. I just have to remember what time
I pulled the mail from the last computer I logged in from. I also keep
messages on the server until specifically deleted. It's a pain.

That's why I wish that my mail reader had two delete message options, one to
delete it just from the client, and the other to delete it from both the
client and the server.

[Graham Freeman]

Post by drcean at sonic
That said, supposedly there is an open source tool which works with
MAPI. Can't remember the name off hand, but I think it came from Novell.

Evolution. See <http://www.gnome.org/projects/evolution/> or
<http://www.novell.com/products/desktop/features/evolution.html>

I've used it in MS Exchange environments before. It's hands-down better
than Entourage (MS's MacOS X Outlook-alike), but not as capable as
Outlook or even Outlook Web Access with regard to Exchange functionality.

[bower]

We just moved to an Exchange server at work, 'supposedly' forcing all
users to Outlook. However, there are enough Sun stations to allow for a
non-Microsoft mail tool, so Thunderbird is supported. And it works well
for the PC users who are Outlook non-lovers. In reality, the settings
could be applied to most mail programs.

The point is that while it's sad to see a migration away from Sonic, you
may not be forced to use Outlook.

-Dave

Post by Bob Alman
I have received a proposal to move our company
mail from being popped from Sonic, to a Microsoft
Server-based Exchange system. There are many good
reasons for people wanting this capability, but
being the Microsoftophobe that I am, I get a
sickening feeling in my gut, because of the
exchange system, and having to use Outlook.
I'm looking for any feedback, both positive and
negative about this proposed change, so I can
decide if I want to accept it, or fight it.
Thanks in advance.

[Paul E Coad]

Post by bower
We just moved to an Exchange server at work, 'supposedly' forcing all
users to Outlook. However, there are enough Sun stations to allow for a
non-Microsoft mail tool, so Thunderbird is supported. And it works well
for the PC users who are Outlook non-lovers. In reality, the settings
could be applied to most mail programs.
The point is that while it's sad to see a migration away from Sonic, you
may not be forced to use Outlook.

At work we use Exchange. I held my nose and ran Outlook (or Lookout!)
until I could not stand it any more. Next I tried Evolution. It has
all of the same UI misfeatures as Outlook. Thunderbird was better.
I managed to use it for a month or so. It quickly became obvious that
managing mail with a mouse was not right for me.

With a little work mutt was made to work with exchange. I am much happier.
I still have to use the webmail for accepting meetings, but life is
much happier now.

There are alternatives for dealing with Exchange for mail which do not
require windows or outlook.

--paul

My is valid coad sonic net
address not use: at dot

[Bob Alman]

Post by Bob Alman
I have received a proposal to move our company
mail from being popped from Sonic, to a Microsoft
Server-based Exchange system. There are many good
reasons for people wanting this capability, but
being the Microsoftophobe that I am, I get a
sickening feeling in my gut, because of the
exchange system, and having to use Outlook.
I'm looking for any feedback, both positive and
negative about this proposed change, so I can
decide if I want to accept it, or fight it.
Thanks in advance.
--
Bob Alman

Well, despite the feelings I have about this,
we're going to move ahead (?) and install this
beast. I hope it goes well..

Thanks for all of the feedback.